Coaching the Wild Back In: How Men Heal Through Grief, Brotherhood, and Nature
Norbert Orlewicz: Welcome to Between two Coaches, a Digital Mentors podcast for coaches, consultants, authors, speakers, and experts. I am your host, Norbert or Leitz, and in each episode we've got a conversation with successful and emerging thought leaders in the mentoring industry to share experiences, insights, practical strategies to make a bigger impact with our work.
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Alright, let's bring out our guest here for today. Today's guest is Nick Villa Real. Nick is a speaker, a coach, improv comedian, and father of two. His incredible journey from addiction loss and mental health challenges drove Nick to commit deep transformation inner work, which is the foundation of the work that he does now with men as the founder of Back to Wild.
IV empowering men to rediscover their strength, their purpose, and their power through play and radical evolution. Nick, it is an honor to have you here on between two coaches.
Nick Villareal: Thank you, Norbert. Appreciate it.
Norbert Orlewicz: Awesome to have you here. Uh, I'm really interested to hear your story of transformation and the work that you're doing, uh, with men.
Uh, let's start off with, uh, a conver a question here just to get this conversation kicked off. why do you think that coaching and mentorship. Is more important right now than ever before. Given all the rapid changes and the craziness going on in our world today, where do you see coaching making a big impact?
Nick Villareal: It's a great question, Norbert.
I think with mental health state after the things that we've been through as a nation and continue to go through as a nation and as a world, the separation that's happened, the isolation that's happened has never been more apparent and the results of that isolation. And I find, especially in men who are not prone to reaching out for help or congregating, you know, there's. A lot of different aspects to a man, and for help is usually not one of them. And so coaching I find more important now than ever is because we're not congregating, because we're not coming together. It's really hard to have an accurate reflection of our reality, how we're doing both physically, mentally, spiritually, and all the different aspects that make a complete human. And so, yeah, I think coaching now more than ever just providing that mirror and especially the mirror that community of like-minded individuals, whether it's, you know, in my case, dads entrepreneurs, and, and men in general, to be able to share those experiences and those struggles to make them more bearable and ultimately overcome.
Norbert Orlewicz: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, you know, everyone's got their challenges, but I do believe that men have their unique challenges in our Western society. Um, you mentioned a couple of things. You mentioned separation, and you mentioned isolation, which I think is, you know. Very key and let's, let's go back and talk about that a little bit more.
But I wanna hear a little bit about your story. 'cause you have an incredible story of transformation, uh, you know, deeply transformative journey. Um, and I find with most coaches, most coaches have some kind of an experience that they've lived through that has driven them to now pursue and share and impact and improve other people's lives as well.
So why don't you share a little bit of that story with us here today, Nick? 'cause it's, uh, it is deeply profound and moving.
Nick Villareal: Absolutely. Thank you for that opportunity. You know, I have a saying, it's the, uh, it's the shit in the life, in your life that will fertilize your dreams.
Norbert Orlewicz: The fertilizer. Yeah. Yeah. I like that.
Nick Villareal: it, and it, and it really is, you know, I had a great childhood growing up just like we all do, um. Well, that's one thing I tell, I tell new parents. I say, well, uh, you're gonna fuck 'em up. I don't know for all those parents out there. But again, that's, that's what gives your kids something to rise above.
And I was no different, you know, labeled, um, mental health issues, A-D-D-A-D-H-D I'm sure half of half of us out there can relate to getting some sort of label early in life, defining ourselves by it. And then, you know, allowing that to dictate our lives. And I was no different. Um, I found myself, you know, seeking things outside of myself, you know, later led to drugs, alcohol, um, becoming a meth addict by the time I was 18, then a father by 19. you know, there's no better place to meet, uh, a partner than in rehab. Of course, you know, that's what they, that's what they say. So that. That, you know, on my men's journey, taking on more responsibility than I was ready for. I know that happens to a lot of people out there, especially men trying to be providers. Um, I.
Later, you know, got divorced and through a series of events, you know, experienced a whole bunch of highs and a whole bunch of lows, just like we do in our twenties. Later found a beautiful woman. Um, my partner, we were ballroom dance instructors together, and it was a beautiful life for a little bit, and that was 2015. And life was really good. For the first time in my life, things were balanced. I was, I was working a bunch, you know, my mental health wasn't really getting in my way. I. And you know, right. When things get great, you're always curious, you know what's next? Well, we went on our honeymoon, um, in May of 2015.
Came back and found out that she was pregnant, and then the week after that we found a lump in her left breast and, you know, not gonna jump to conclusions. We then moved from Nashville where we were living to California. closer to family. And when we got to California, we found out it, it was cancer and that was not easy.
Being pregnant with cancer and having so many unknowns, you know, it's the, the craziest feeling that should be the happiest time in your life. And really you're, you're stressed out more than ever. And again, this isn't. my story. This is the story of so many people of that have found themselves in these extreme situations, not knowing the outcomes and not having the tools to get through them. luckily through that time though, um, previous to us getting married, I had just gotten my yoga instructor. Um. Certification. So I yoga really helped me through this time when I developed a be a Deep practice. But, um, seven months after we were married and she found out she was pregnant, my daughter was born at three pounds, 11 ounces, and I spent um, you know, Christmas of 2015, going back and forth between my daughter and the INCU and my wife who is losing consciousness and that. You know that that woke me up. That woke me up to the bigger picture. And um, February, uh, 15th, 2016, my wife Becca passed away I was left a single dad. that shit was not easy. Um, I, I laugh as a defense mechanism, but I've also processed a lot through it, so I. Um, and then I still wasn't though addressing my mental health.
I don't know what it was, but I still refused to utilize Western medicine as it was prescribed, and I. But that's when I found physical fitness. That's when I found meditation, and that's what started the groundwork for the work I do now with men. And it wasn't till about three years after that in which I got engaged again and lost because of my own not asking for the help that I needed that one finally broke me. So enough was enough. My daughter was seven and I needed to be a better father, so I stepped up, as my dad says, I put on my glasses, addressed my mental health to the full extent that I could. since then, all of the tools that I developed, both with grief, both with life and again those foundation, sleep movement, food. now spirituality, um, have led me to this point on the journey.
Norbert Orlewicz: I just gotta process that for a minute. Um,
Nick Villareal: I.
Norbert Orlewicz: yeah. 'cause that's, uh, that's quite an experience. I mean, I've, I. Speaking with coaches all these years, I've, I've, I've heard some pretty deep and powerful and moving stories. You know, there's so many people have, have deep and profound experiences and, and that one definitely hits, hits really hard.
Um, you know, as, as we get older, uh, I'm gonna be turning 50 in a couple of years, and as we get older, I, I find myself being a lot more emotional the last couple of years. Really feeling the depth of life. It's even hard to put it into words, but my kids are getting older relationship, you know, 12, 13 years.
We're looking at, you know, being empty nesters. You know, you've just, all this stuff that you have going on in life and whether it's a profound loss, like what you experienced,
Nick Villareal: Mm-hmm.
Norbert Orlewicz: or small losses that we experience on a regular basis.
Nick Villareal: Yeah.
Norbert Orlewicz: Just the process of aging and growing, and most of our audience is more of a mature audience, so I think that most people can kind of relate and, and, and connect with with, with what I'm just trying to share here.
Nick Villareal: Mm-hmm.
Norbert Orlewicz: There is a lot as people, as men, as people that we deal with when it comes to loss, when it comes to trauma, when it comes to our aspirations, when it comes to aspiring to reach our full potential. So much of that inner work influences our daily life. How do we navigate all of these emotions, all of these responsibilities that we have as a man?
You know, like I've got my responsibility to my kids, to my wife, to my mother, to you know, my clients, to my business partners. I feel like, especially for men and let's you know, let's talk with men. 'cause we're two men here. That responsibility is so much to bear
Nick Villareal: Mm-hmm.
Norbert Orlewicz: Challenged mentally and emotionally with all of that. I mean, I, I think about myself and I've been very privileged in many different ways, right? And yet I've gone through some, some, some challenges and some shit where I can think to myself, my God, it would be so easy to break.
Nick Villareal: Mm.
Norbert Orlewicz: Like I feel, I feel, and correct me if I'm wrong, but I feel like that line between, I'm doing okay.
And having a full on mental breakdown is so slim for everybody. Like I had, I don't have, I haven't been diagnosed with any mental issues. I don't take prescription medications. I don't feel like I have any mental issues, and yet I can totally relate that. I know that there's been points in my life where I was on a thin wire.
Nick Villareal: Mm-hmm.
Norbert Orlewicz: How do we navigate this as men? Where do we find our center and the strength to bear those responsibilities?
Nick Villareal: Together. Idealistically because it wasn't until I came to the realization that life a solo game.
You know, it wasn't until I had those experiences that I started to lean on more people. I started to to say, wow, I can't. Do this all on my own. 'cause it's literally me crazy, you know? But if, if we're not at that point yet of reaching help, I would say, you know, the emotional attunement comes from the awareness any given moment and how we relate to our reality.
Your, your philosophy, you know, and you know. Um, what was, what was the saying that, um, philosophy will follow physiology, you know, so how you treat your body, because your body is, you know, your subconscious, the body keeps the score. There's a book on that. And to be able to handle your emotions or the meaning that you give them, the meaning that you give them, is only as deep as your willingness to know yourself and know this moment. And that's really what broke open for me when I lost my wife, is that it broke my, for lack of a better word, my spirituality awoke in that moment beyond my conceptualization of anything else prior to that. And so, um, the book, the Way of the Superior Man, he talks about a man is only gonna be as grounded. As his understanding of himself in the present moment, regardless of what waves come over you.
Norbert Orlewicz: It was funny when you gave me that answer, uh, of together and seeking help. I know for myself, that's probably one of my biggest challenges and I don't know what that stems from. I know my, my father was a fiercely independent individual, and so I probably get a little bit of that. Um, and I know for myself, I have such a challenge in asking for help.
I feel like I need to figure it out on my own.
Nick Villareal: Yeah.
Norbert Orlewicz: so for those men, what do you say to them? What do you to, to men like me who are the lone wolves, who are individualists, um, you know, who grin and bear it themselves. What do you say to men like that when your answer is, we need to do this together and you can't do this alone.
Nick Villareal: Ab, absolutely. And I think you know, you can do it alone. Did you know that Lone Wolfs eventually come back to the pack? There was, I, I forget there was this, there was this study done on, on lone Wolfs going, going out at one point, and, and you see the lone wolf out there. But now that we've, with science and, and animal patterns and whatnot, lone wolfs actually come back to the pack. I just learned this recently and I thought it was super impactful. Um, but, but you're right. I think our, our need and our want for autonomy, need and our want for freedom. Independence is, is that we want to feel, um, limitless and boundless and have nothing that we can't do in this reality, and that knowing that we are capable, I think that's a fundamental thought in most men's mind, and that's what keeps us isolated.
But here's the thing. We're moving through a paradigm right now from old masculinity to new masculinity. Old masculinity was, was founded in fear. It was founded in conquering and combat, and it was founded in, uh, controlling versus today we're moving into a leadership. Based masculinity where there's leadership, there's collaboration, and there's compassion. You know, if we don't, if we stop fighting over resources learn how to utilize our resources for the benefit of all. I personally, and this is just my own personal philosophy, but. There's gonna be a lot less agitation in the world, and sure you can do it all on your own. But when I tried that man, I was aggravated, man was I stressed out and just like, oh my gosh.
It's like the difference between having a, so being a solopreneur and then having a team of even just three. And I think, you know what I hear with the clients that I have, those solo business owners. It comes down to trust. They honestly don't think other people can do it as well as they can. Um, but yet they're unwilling to make the systems to do so.
So it's kind of like um, interesting dynamic that happens there.
Norbert Orlewicz: Yeah. Ooh, there's some juicy stuff that I want to dig into there. I wanna dig into that masculinity topic,
Nick Villareal: Yeah.
Norbert Orlewicz: as well. But I, I wanna just stay on this trust thing that you just brought up. As we're talking about collaboration, we're talking about working with other men. Uh, you know, I'm, I'm just thinking about myself right now, and I, and I'm thinking it, it's gotta be trust for me.
Because for me, sometimes people are more trouble than they're worth,
Nick Villareal: Hmm.
Norbert Orlewicz: you know? Um, people have their baggage, people have their needs. Relationships get complicated. Uh, you know, and I've had great partners that I've worked with for like 18 years that I still love working with, you know, to this day. And also, and also I sometimes feel like.
That trust maybe just isn't there. And which is funny because we started this conversation, I think before we hit record, I was talking about how much I trust in my life. I trust in God, I trust in the journey, I trust in my journey.
Nick Villareal: Yeah.
Norbert Orlewicz: what gets me through things. And yet, when it comes to people and getting help from people and really collaborating and working together with people, I think maybe there's an element of distrust that I have.
Nick Villareal: Mm,
Norbert Orlewicz: How do we overcome that barrier to really building those deep connections that we require with other men to foster this new masculinity that you talk about.
Nick Villareal: that's a great question.
I believe that trust must first come from ourselves, like you said, your trust in God and knowing that, at least in my understanding of the reality that I live in, we're all some sort of reflection of the greater divine. And you can create a container where people, you know why people are there. able to articulate that and it's a, it's a vibe, you know? I mean, I'm sure everyone that I've ever worked with or collaborated with, we have a shared vision and we also have shared values that are gonna dictate our actions to get to that vision.
Norbert Orlewicz: Hmm.
Nick Villareal: I think having acceptance of ourselves, knowing that we're flawed and maybe the expectations of another person are a little bit too high. So they might feel like they have to lie or they might feel like they're falling, they're falling short, you know? And so I think having, having trust, um, involves having an aligned vision. And it also comes from the acceptance that nobody is perfect, but as long as there's open communications and in business, you know, parameters to protect yourself, obviously, uh, we want to have those goals in place and make sure that work is done. But at the end of the day, you know, we're humans aiming towards a North star and you know, having that trust, it's risky. I'm not gonna lie. It's risky, but I think more that you can trust someone, the more that they'll feel empowered to live up to that trust,
Norbert Orlewicz: Hmm.
Nick Villareal: So.
Norbert Orlewicz: Yeah. Yeah. That's profound. Um, let's talk about this, this masculinity. 'cause there's a lot of talk in, you know, society in our culture right now about toxic, toxic masculinity, right?
Nick Villareal: Oh.
Norbert Orlewicz: And I get really frustrated with that because I, you know,
Nick Villareal: Mm-hmm.
Norbert Orlewicz: I, I feel like a lot of that is just a big cop out and we're not really talking about the, the real issues.
I really kind of like the way that you. That you brought this conversation that brought this topic here. You, you said that, look, there was some issues with the previous idea of masculinity and I think this is where maybe the two sides, 'cause there seems to be two opposing sides on this topic, right? Um, this is maybe where I think the two sides can sort of come together is accept the fact that, yeah, maybe some parts of masculinity are toxic.
What are those parts. And
Nick Villareal: Mm-hmm.
Norbert Orlewicz: what are the good parts of masculinity, right? And this is maybe where we have to define this for ourselves individually. Maybe there can't be a universal definition of what makes a good man. But in your, in your perspective, what do you think this, what does this transition look like?
What does this change look like? Um, from the old patriarchy, patriarchy in its negative connotation
Nick Villareal: Mm-hmm.
Norbert Orlewicz: to the truly empowered man.
Nick Villareal: Mm-hmm.
Norbert Orlewicz: What do you feel? What do you believe is our role as men in this new world that we're creating?
Nick Villareal: So I think I'll, I'll answer your question in two parts. The first answer to that is consciousness. You know, I. The way I've heard it explained or the way that it made sense to me, women have always been inside of their heads mentally, and more spiritually connected. Through the feminist revolution, they stepped more into the 3D physical world, and that's why we're seeing more women going to school.
We're more accomplished entrepreneurs. seeing women really step into this physical world. As men, we've always been in this physical world. This has been a man's world for a long time. You know, because we are physically capable. Like it's just, um, I don't, I don't know. That's just science. It know. It's what it, it's what it is. Take it, take it what it is. Anyway. We are in the process of catching up consciously to also being in that more divine for that space, quote unquote, in between, you know, or we start to step into our emotions. Like you said, you know, as you, as you evolve, even you said it, you're stepping more into that. Spiritual space, you're stepping more into that ecological, that not ecological, that ethe space and that deepens us. And what I, what I find is that as men we're becoming, the new masculine is really becoming more balanced between the understanding of this world conscious beyond it. You know, finding connection, finding solace, and that's where empathy. That's where love, and that's where ultimately we'll be able to come together. You know, if you have a bunch of alphas working towards one common goal that will serve everyone. 'cause I agree there are parts of, you know, masculinity that are great. You know, like the strength, the bravery, the courage, the willingness to step on the unknown and die for what you believe in, like. that is, that is masculine to me. You know, and again, everyone defines it their own. But the toxic comes from lack. The toxic comes from I need more resources. I.
Norbert Orlewicz: We go.
Nick Villareal: if I don't have enough, I'm not enough, or I'm not an alpha or I'm not, it comes down to that really egoic, you know, identification. And so I think the transition that we're going from is that egoic grabbing at resources to feeling okay, just who we are as men, know?
And knowing that maybe we don't need as much as we once thought we did.
Norbert Orlewicz: Yeah. 'cause when is enough, enough. Right. How much longer do you need? Like how much more do you need to strive for? How many more zeros do you need in that bank account really? Or are you just trying to fill an empty, an empty void that's never gonna be filled, right? Because in the end, we can't take any of that stuff with us.
We live it, we leave it here. And I think the older we get and the closer we get to, you know, to our, to our deathbed, to, we realize that maybe more so, more and more. Tell me, with your work with men now, uh, with the work that you do, the coaching that you do, and, and, uh, back to wild, the, the, you know, the excursions that, that you're creating and the experiences that you're creating for men, what, what is it that you see that men struggle with a lot that maybe is, you know, not talked about as much?
That should be addressed, that maybe their friends, their family members, their partners, their children could better understand what they're going through as men.
Nick Villareal: Three things really stick out to me and, uh, we can go through them each, each at one time. grief, forgiveness, and joy. You know?
Norbert Orlewicz: That's a trifecta right there. That is pretty good grief, forgiveness, and joy. Yeah. Wow.
Nick Villareal: So like you were saying, I have grief. You have grief. I have grief over the life. Not lived. You have grief over the life to come. I have grief over the life to come. You have grief over the life that you didn't get to live or even that you did live. There's grief embedded. of our lives all the time. My daughter recently, so she got this, um, frog baby pool when she was like three, and it was great. It served us really well. We've caught newts in it.
We've put goldfish in it. It was full of sand. It was her cold plunge for a quick minute. She's nine now, and she said we were cleaning out and she said, dad, I'm ready to get rid of the frog. I was like, oh. That's grief. You know, my son, he's 19 now, and he's coming out to California with his girlfriend. He's no longer my little boy. There's grief right there, but we're not giving the tools or the allowance to express this grief that allows us to be full, to be complete as humans. You know, like, and again, that, that, to that, and I, I, I despise toxic masculinity because we've kind of like attached those two together.
Norbert Orlewicz: Hmm.
Nick Villareal: I just refer to it as masculine, a part of masculinity I. part of masculinity that is unhealthy is that allowance for grief and oftentimes grief from, so, one thing I did include in my story was that when my son was seven, his mom stopped bringing him around. Um, we had, you know, visitation together and I had to make a decision was really hard for me.
Either I could keep on fighting. To be with my son I could leave and start my life all over again. And I, and I made the really difficult decision and I left and I left him in the hands of another man who she later married and he became an abusive alcoholic stepdad. And there are so many situations like that in the world, whereas men, we have to make really tough decisions. And the level of forgiveness that we need the level of grace that we need to get through that to stop judging ourselves or to incorporate that grief into our life, that's not something necessarily that we can do alone. 'cause we need a mirror. We need that empathy. You know, that's just, that's one example. And so you have your, your grief that's embedded naturally in all of our lives. And this also is reflected in women's lives, but we're talking about men here and, and, and the forgiveness. But you can go from grief and once you forgive the grief, can step into joy. And as men, we are not joy. Like joy is the opposite side of grief.
And through forgiveness, do we find the joy all of it? It's like the purpose of grief to transcend into joy. without that, that is misery. That is sickness. That is. You know, delusion of living in the past. So through that segue of forgiveness, we are then given this deep, deep joy. And you probably experienced this as you get older, you know the joy of your child's, your child's smile, the joy of holding your partner's hand. The joy of seeing someone getting an aha on one of your calls. It's just that much more rich and it's that richness that's gonna allow us to really, as a society and as a race move to that next level towards just joy across all, all planes, you know? So that's, that's how I see that.
Norbert Orlewicz: And I can imagine if we don't experience that, if we don't move through the grief. Through forgiveness into joy, then we're most likely seeking joy in from things that are never gonna give us that joy. Those, the, the addictions. I'm, I'm coming back to the addictions in that, right? And you've got experience.
You've got experience with that, right? Yeah. Because then we're just grasping and whether, whether it's, you know, whether it's, uh, you know, sex or drugs or alcohol or whatever it is, it's all the same thing. You're seeking that joy that is not authentic to you because you haven't done the work and, uh, and forgiven.
Forgiven yourself or forgiven others.
Nick Villareal: A hundred percent. And oftentimes it, I didn't learn how to forgive myself on my own. I had to seek a teacher. You know, that was part of my evolution. I got really into Buddhism, got really into Christianity, got really into all the different religions to learn what forgiveness looks like from all different sites, you know, um, Hindi religion, you know, Muslim religion, the difference, uh, chin to. All the different sort of religions that teach forgiveness in all the different angles, um, to come at, to be able to do it. And, you know, tons of therapy, men's groups, yoga communities and nature. Mm-hmm.
Norbert Orlewicz: talk about that a little bit. Let's talk about nature a little bit. Um, 'cause that's probably one of the easiest connectors, and yet, you know, the majority of us live in cities. I grew up in Scarborough, which, uh, is, is outside Toronto, the big smoke.
Nick Villareal: Mm-hmm.
Norbert Orlewicz: I grew up with very little nature in in my life.
I got, I got the privilege of being able to move out to Vancouver for theater school in my early twenties, and I just got lost in the mountains. You know, I mean, I became a snowboard bum, started smoking a little bit of the, here, you know, had some psychedelic experiences and, you know, I became one with the, with with, with the, with the forest.
I've had those experiences in nature and they were deeply profound and deeply moving, and it's what's kept me out here in the west. How important is our connection to nature, especially for men in the city? Like, how much do we need to prioritize this? What do you think on that?
Nick Villareal: Oh my gosh. It's just like, um. The fish looking for the ocean.
Norbert Orlewicz: Yeah.
Nick Villareal: You know? It's like, it's it. Nature is you are nature. We are You know, we originated from, well, who knows? That's a whole different discussion. at one point, you know, at one point we were living outdoors all the time. You know, all the time. And I think the separation of us from nature is convenience, is comfort, is, you know, the, the easy life that robs us from our freedom. And I say this because when you have a comfortable bed. I love a comfortable bed, especially after a five day backpacking trip for
Norbert Orlewicz: A.
Nick Villareal: I'm, I'm not a warm shower for sure, it's, it's to be in those elements will teach you what you are made of. are as strong as the wind. You are as powerful as the ocean.
You are as grounded as the dirt that you stand on. Until you immerse yourself in those elements enough to let the bullshit that's fed to us seep out of us into the soil. And where, however it comes outta you, I don't know, hug a tree. But once we get, once we let go of this construct of, again, the things that we reach for, that we, that we are told that will solve our issues. When you go out into nature, man, you got a backpack, something to eat, you're complete and you'll feel it and you'll, you'll come back connected. You know? And I think that there's, there's actually divide happening right now, people who are going further into this and I don't wanna get too ethereal with it, but it's like, you know, you get, you get too far into the matrix and you get, you get lost, you get delusional.
'cause you have no connection to the actual reality that you're living in. That's, that's as real as it's gonna get out there in the woods, out there in nature, whether you're on the ocean or, and even, even a walk, know, even a walk a park and lying on the grass. You don't have to get lost in the wilderness, but like seek that connection.
'cause one of the most beautiful things, the point, what actually, um, participant in my last, um, excursion pointed out to me, he goes, when you're out in nature and you look around. is alive. Everything is alive, know, and life is booming and there's hope and there's joy. Of course, there's a lot of like sadness and a lot of grief out there too.
But it's balanced in this beautiful way of acceptance. If you look around you right now, or you go inside an office, there are very, very few, like, I hope you got some plants in there,
Norbert Orlewicz: Hmm.
Nick Villareal: you know, so.
Norbert Orlewicz: Yeah, it's interesting. We started this conversation talking about separation and isolation,
Nick Villareal: Mm-hmm.
Norbert Orlewicz: As the biggest things that are, that are, um, that are challenging men. And, you know, we talk about the civilized world. Living in a city, you're separated and isolated from the, from like your, from your source, from your source.
Nick Villareal: That's your most natural self. You are. The court has been severed and we've been sold a, know. We've been sold a sacrament that no longer connects us to ourself,
Norbert Orlewicz: Hmm.
Nick Villareal: you know?
Norbert Orlewicz: What a crazy challenging time we live in and that we're moving into in the next few years. 'cause I, I agree. There's some interesting, um, polarities I. That seem to both be getting stronger and stronger. You know, like there is this push, like you're saying, the matrix, right? We look at where technology's going with ai, with robotics, with automation, with transhumanism.
I dunno if you've dug much into the whole transhumanist movement, but
Nick Villareal: Oh
Norbert Orlewicz: you know.
Nick Villareal: Yeah.
Norbert Orlewicz: yeah. So, you know, it's literally redefining what we are as human. I mean, there's a guy, very famous author. Who I despise immensely, uh, who's very popular and famous. And he talks about the fact that this is the la this is the last of humans, like the human species is done with.
Because we are hackable creatures. We are nothing more than machines. And the machines. The machines are superior to us. And this is the kind of philosophy, this is the kind of ideology that is at the head of some of these. Agendas and movements to push technology and to push this matrix matrix further and further into, onto our humanity.
Nick Villareal: Mm-hmm.
Norbert Orlewicz: And yet that is the complete opposite of what makes us feel human and what makes us feel joy and fulfillment and purpose. And so how do we navigate this crazy world of amazing, incredible technologies that have incredible benefits for us? I. Yet retain our humanity,
right? How do we pursue all of these great things that we can create and yet retain what makes us human? How do we find that balance?
Nick Villareal: Discernment and groundedness in the reason for our exploration.
Norbert Orlewicz: Aha. The intention behind it? Yeah. Why are we doing this? Right?
Nick Villareal: Our discernment to be able to truly be autonomous. Allow our experience to come from within as opposed to believing the things we see outside of ourselves.
Norbert Orlewicz: So we're good?
Nick Villareal: deep fakes,
Norbert Orlewicz: Yeah.
Nick Villareal: just like you know, things that are coming out with ai, you know, you can develop as it develops should you choose the attunement of, a feeling. I look at an AI picture or I look at a video and I'm like, wow, that was really well done. But it's too perfect. It's too perfect. Just like in the Matrix, you know, they built a utopia that was too perfect and people rejected it,
Norbert Orlewicz: Right.
Nick Villareal: you know? And so we are entering into a world of hyperrealism, which on purpose, because that allows for more, um. More pleasure seeking. You know, it's just heightened, heightened, heightened, you know? And just like when Jurassic Park came out, oh my gosh, it was amazing. Like you could see a dinosaur and no longer was it a part of our imagination, it was defined for us, and therefore gave us that pleasure of being like, yeah, that's a dinosaur. Versus giving us the freedom to be able to think of what a dinosaur might be like and interpret it in our, in our own way. That's a freedom.
Norbert Orlewicz: Yeah.
Nick Villareal: think as a society, we don't understand the freedoms that are being taken away as things become more and more and more defined,
Norbert Orlewicz: Mm.
Nick Villareal: And so my, my answer also to that, I'd love, you know, and I've just been fighting at the chomp or chomping at the bit to, to talk about this.
I know we talked before, the recording is psychedelics, man,
Norbert Orlewicz: Yeah.
Nick Villareal: psychedelics. Are the way that we can commune to know what's real, because especially like psilocybin mushrooms, ayahuasca, um, toad, different plants that were given to us by the earth to connect to her, and I use her earth is both masculine and feminine.
But we'll, we'll keep it feminine, you know, for the sake of this conversation. And that is what provides discernment. huge Terrence McKenna fan.
Norbert Orlewicz: Hmm.
Nick Villareal: Terrence McKenna was?
Norbert Orlewicz: Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah.
Nick Villareal: Yeah. So I mean, he wrote this book, fruit of the Gods, and it changed my life up until a certain point we were in communion with the earth through all of our, um, indigenous medicine and over two generations. It was replaced with a false sacrament, alcohol and provided euphoria, provided inhibition, provided all the things that come with psychedelics except the connection. And we have severed the connection through and replaced it with a poison inflammation, that creates fear, creates, uh, non-reality to where we lose our ability to discern.
Norbert Orlewicz: I have to come back to something that you mentioned when we, when you first mentioned toxic masculinity and the new Max Max MA masculinity, and you talked about, uh, the old masculinity was rooted in fear.
Nick Villareal: Mm-hmm.
Norbert Orlewicz: Conquest and control. And now, when you brought up, uh, when we started talking about technology, and you said the important thing is the intention behind it.
Why are we pursuing these things?
Nick Villareal: Mm-hmm.
Norbert Orlewicz: And again, what's the intention? Is the intention coming out of fear, out of control, out of conquest, to create these technologies, to improve our bodies with technology, with robotics. With electronics. Why? Because we're afraid. Afraid of death.
Nick Villareal: Mm-hmm.
Norbert Orlewicz: do we have an intention to actually use these tools and technologies for the betterment of humanity, for more abundance, for more peace, for more unity?
Nick Villareal: Mm-hmm.
Norbert Orlewicz: And I think that's the root of it all is are we as men rooted in fear and lack and control, or are we as men rooted in love, abundance, and trust?
Nick Villareal: I would have to easily, for me would be both because you can't, it's just like any technology we have the internet. internet has connected us in so many ways. I would've never met you,
Norbert Orlewicz: yeah.
Nick Villareal: never met me. We would've never have had this influential conversation and hopefully change some lives or at least change some ideas or make somebody think had there been no internet
Norbert Orlewicz: Yeah.
Nick Villareal: beautiful thing during COVID, it what kept humanity together in a way.
Norbert Orlewicz: Yeah.
Nick Villareal: But then there's also the dark web.
Norbert Orlewicz: Yeah.
Nick Villareal: Which everything that's wrong with the world exists.
Norbert Orlewicz: Right.
Nick Villareal: I think these technologies too much credit for what they will do. The technology isn't a they, a thing. You can use a rock like somebody, or you can use a rock to be a display in your garden. It's an inanimate thing and I think people focus too much on, you know, their opinion towards the object. It's all subjective, and I think it speaks to where someone is. Do I believe that technology can be amazing? Yes. Do I believe here's a good one. Do I believe that given the chance if technology could have saved my wife from cancer. Would that have been better or would it have been better for me to deepen my understanding with this life, with this experience gone through that grief and being able to come outside with the joy. So even me seeking my own comfort and solutions would have robbed me of the true experience of my life. You know, and, and who's to say what's, what's right or wrong for each individual. But I know after going that experience, there's nothing to fear. It's all gonna be over. Everything changes. And also, you know, you spoke to the fear of death. I think because we are disconnected a lot of people fear death because there's such an unknowing what's going on here for
Norbert Orlewicz: Hmm.
Nick Villareal: Waking up when, when Becca died, and plus doing a healthy amount of psychedelics has allowed me, and, and studying religion has allowed me to come to peace With that, this is all impermanent. None of this is gonna last. These computers that we are talking through will last longer than we will. know, like this pen, the plastic on this pen is gonna last longer than I will. know, and like, that's, that's what it is, know, and I, and I totally understand, like, sure, you can download yourself into something, but then it's like, you know, and that's, that's an individual's, you know, God bless them.
Like I sure that might be cool to just be like a robot for like 50 years. But when you do that, you're living again in fear because death is the ultimate unknown. So, I don't know. I, I embrace it and I've been lucky enough to, to be given that that point of view.
Norbert Orlewicz: Yeah, incredible. All right, let's, uh, why don't you share with us what you've got going on with Born to Wild, with Back to Wild, uh, and what, uh, what you, some of the things that you've got coming up and how people can get in touch with you as well. 'cause I know that there are quite a few men who could really benefit from a men's excursion into the wilderness or anything remotely similar to that.
So tell us a little bit about. Back to wild. What's the inspiration impetus behind it, and what are some of the things that you're doing with it?
Nick Villareal: Yeah, so back to wild. Um, like we talked about, you know, men are faced with so many challenges, uh, especially, you know, being super busy responsibility and then also carrying that grief. I. Often turning into depression and just having the life sucked out of them, um, because, you know, we're not taught the tools.
So back to wild is really there to be able to champion the man who's ready to step back into his wildness. Uh, both physically and mentally. We have a few different ways to do that. We have a 30 day online reset. Our wild reset. It basically gets you back on the nutrition kick with our customized, um, ai.
It's absolutely amazing. No more just typing in, um, to something to, it's, it's arduous. So we've just really simplified that and giving you tools with, through our online program to be able to assess the character you're currently living, build a new character and step into that new life. Um.
Norbert Orlewicz: Tell me, yeah.
Nick Villareal: exciting.
Norbert Orlewicz: Tell us a little bit about the, um, the test that you've got on there, your wild factor quiz.
Nick Villareal: Yeah, that's, thank you for asking. So the, um, the wild factor assessment is really there to be able to help, uh, any man who's willing to take it, wanting transformation in his life assess where he is. We work in the five realms, physical, mental, emotional, spiritual, and relational. Those are the foundations of your life, so I wanna make sure that you're feeling like you're showing up 110% and the assessment is just gonna give you a little bit of time for that self-reflection to see where you are.
Norbert Orlewicz: Okay, awesome. So we've got the self-assessment, you've got the 30 day reset, and then you do actually do have, uh, retreats and excursions. As well where you actually get out into the, into the wilderness. Wilderness. Tell us a little bit about that. Like are we doing some extreme backpacking stuff or what's the, what's the focus and what can, what can a guy ex expect to experience in in, in one of those retreats, getaways.
Nick Villareal: Um, thanks for asking. So the. It just depends on what your level of extreme is, know? Um, we do anywhere from three to 12 mile backpacking excursions. One way, um, elevation, just depends on where we are. They've, we have them in California currently and are going to reach out, uh, to Oregon, Utah, Montana, Appalachian mountains all over, and eventually go international. These are really the hero's journey, like the hero's journey. If you're looking to challenge your body, your mind, um, deepen your philosophy about life, let go of your grief, be supported in forgiving yourself, and really step into that joy. Um, this would be an adventure for you and it's definitely taxing. Um, and we do everything from, you know, talk therapy and, and our, well, I won't use the word therapy, but we, we talk and support each other. Uh, there is some plant medicine in there as well. And truly stepping through a portal for anyone who's wanting that journey.
Norbert Orlewicz: Yeah, that sounds exciting. It sounds like an adventure that I think is, is, uh, you know, probably calling to, to a lot of men out there. So it's a, it's a really awesome endeavor that, that you're taking on and, and I think incredible leadership that we need in this. SW today, so, uh, yeah, sounds awesome. Act to wild LIVE and we will have the links in the description and, and all of that obviously as well for places where people can connect with you.
Are you on social media much? Uh, we connected on LinkedIn and I think you have a YouTube channel, correct?
Nick Villareal: Yes, I am on YouTube and LinkedIn.
Norbert Orlewicz: Okay, awesome. So connect with Nick there, and again, it's back to wild. Ive, so Nick, thank you so much for being in this conversation. We might have to continue this conversation in the future, um, because there's so many things that I would love to talk to you about. Uh, it's been a really great conversation.
So I just want to thank you so much for sharing your insights, um, for being vulnerable and sharing your story and, and your experiences. Um, you know, I think it means a lot when, when you can have another man be vulnerable and, you know, share the challenges that he's experienced and, and the growth and the journey that he's been on.
Nick Villareal: Uh, well thank you so much, Norbert, for having me on here, and you know, it's. Again, it's not a, it's not so, it's a team sport. So glad, glad we could do this together.
Norbert Orlewicz: Yeah, I always say that about business, about starting a business. I always say that, uh, and uh, I guess we gotta consider that that's true for life as well, isn't it? Yeah.
Nick Villareal: Yeah.
Norbert Orlewicz: All right. Awesome. Nick, thank you so much for being here. Like I said, we're gonna leave all the information in the show notes and the description below.
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